2Bobs: Co-Hosted Conversations for Creative Entrepreneurs, with David C. Baker and Blair Enns
What do you get when two opinionated and well-respected business consultants record and publish conversations?
One of the top podcasts in professional services.
Since 2017, David C. Baker and Blair Enns have published more than 200 value-rich episodes on the art of creative entrepreneurship through their show, 2Bobs.
Recently, David and Blair joined Podcasting in Professional Services to share their experience running 2Bobs, the benefits of co-hosting a podcast, and the impact their show has had on each of their businesses.
Meet the Bobs
Blair Enns, founder of Win Without Pitching, and David C. Baker, head of advisory services at Punctuation, have established themselves as leading voices in the realm of creative and professional services.
Both authors and consultants, Blair and David’s expertise lies in transforming how professionals approach sales and business development. For example, Blair’s new book, The Four Conversations: A New Model For Selling Expertise gives you a playbook for selling expertise.
David C. Baker is known as “the expert’s expert.” When firm owners reach a pivotal moment in their story, his team helps write the next chapter. For example, David’s new book, Selling Your Professional Services Firm: A Primer, helps you prepare for quite possibly the biggest financial transaction of your entire life.
Some might argue these two consultants compete with each-other. And that may be true to some extent.
So why launch a podcast together?
Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship
As first a consumer of podcasts, it was originally Blair’s idea to launch a show with David. “The primary reason for the podcast was a reason for David and I just to have regular conversations,” said Blair. “And that's a fine enough reason to do a podcast,” added David.
The duo started creating podcast content in 2015, but scrapped many of their early recordings. It wasn’t until 2017 when they released episodes publicly for the first time.
The show is named in reference to a scene from “Office Space,” a cult classic movie first released in 1999. As David wrote in a behind-the-scenes article of the show, “Both of us have been called ‘one of the Bobs’ over the years, as advisors to the space, so we just leaned into it.”
Even the show’s artwork is a nod to another character in the movie, Milton, who has an obsession with a red stapler.
Co-Hosted Shows: An Emerging Podcasting Opportunity
Most podcasts in professional services are hosted by a single person. Recently, I looked at a sample of more than 150 shows across accounting, financial services, AEC, consulting, and legal industries. Only 3-in-10 shows have multiple hosts—a clear opportunity for new podcasters considering a move into the space.
However, this presents a creative challenge for new podcasters. Co-hosted shows require more commentary from the on-air personalities, which means the hosts will need to supply value to listeners, rather than extracting value from a guest.
Taking Turns Selecting Episode Topics
Since Blair and David do not accept guests on 2Bobs, they take turns interviewing each-other about topics that are both interesting and evergreen. In most cases, the topics they select have been refined through their own writing.
“My number one source of ideas is actually writing,” said Blair. “So when I'm writing a piece of content, I get these tangential ideas and I just note those ideas in Evernote.” Blair then explained how detailed blog posts often become podcast topics. This method allows for him to explore subjects in-depth to give him clarity before recording.
David, on the other hand, has a slightly anarchistic approach to selecting topics. “My mind is sort of like, if it was on the battlefield, a lot of people would die on both sides,” said David in reference to selecting podcast topics. “I'm shooting everywhere. It's uncontrolled.”
“It's a matter of capturing an idea,” David continued. “Most [ideas] come when I'm talking with a client or a prospect, every once in a while on a drive, it's always at an inconvenient time.” David then went on to describe how he marinates on ideas for a few days, keeping it at the forefront of his mind as he consumes additional information to shape his own perspective.
This dynamic has allowed 2Bobs to maintain consistency and quality, stemming from their own expertise and chemistry. All without the headache of coordinating guest interviews.
The Drawbacks of an Interview Show: a Revolving Door of Guests
One challenge of hosting an interview-based show is that hosts have to establish rapport with a new guest on nearly every episode. On top of that, most guests have a specific message they’re trying to convey, making it challenging for hosts to take control of the conversation.
“Something's occurred to me,” said David, pondering about the podcasting space. “There's been a switch recently…hosts are not as much in charge. It seems to me like guests are more in charge. And so you have these people who come to any podcast they're appearing on and they have got to get some message across.”
However, this doesn’t mean podcast hosts should be doormats for their guests. According to data from PodMatch, there are 44 guests seeking interviews for every one interview-based podcast. This creates an environment where podcast hosts can be much more selective with their guests. Additionally, hosts will need to maintain sharp interviewing skills. Or else they risk ceding control to guests who will dominate the conversation.
“It takes a really good host to wrap that up so it's a fixed agenda for the listener and not being dragged in every direction by the guest who wants to get a message across,” said David.
Double the Hosts, Double the Impact
Iron sharpens iron. This is a sentiment shared by many business podcast co-hosts, like Jason and Jeff from Rattle & Pedal. Co-hosting a podcast helps expand your thinking beyond the echo chamber of your own organization.
But that isn’t the only benefit of finding a podcast co-host. Building a podcast audience from scratch can be an arduous journey. With a co-host, you bring double the promotion power.
“I think one of the reasons why the podcast has done well is because Blair brought his audience that he developed independently and I brought mine,” David said. “Now they kept listening because it was good, but I don't think they ever would have started listening unless they had heard about it through an email relationship.”
Now that 2Bobs has published over 200 episodes since 2017 and is ranked among the top business podcasts, the podcast has had success attracting and retaining listeners. But has it had an impact on Blair and David’s businesses?
“[The podcast] makes sales so much easier,” said David. “It's like when I have a phone call with somebody, there's really not much to talk about. They kind of know what I think about things. They know what I charge.”
“One of the benefits of the podcast medium is I think it is the most intimate medium of all,” said Blair. “More so than video, which obviously has an audio component, there's something about listening to a person's voice while not looking at them and hearing their voice for many hours.”
Ready to Launch a Co-Hosted Podcast?
Blair Enns and David C. Baker’s journey with 2Bobs offers a model for niche business podcasts. They have certainly been an inspiration to me. If you’re interested in exploring how you could take a page from Blair and David, reach out to me on LinkedIn or fill out this contact form.
