Rattle & Pedal: The Dynamics of Divergent Views, with Jason Mlicki and Jeff McKay
Marketing can be complex. Especially in industries like accounting, finance, AEC, or technology services. On top of navigating the expert-driven sale, buyer behavior is constantly shifting with trends and technology. Even top strategists and marketers in the industry need peer sounding boards to escape echo chambers and explore new ideas.
For Jason Mlicki and Jeff McKay, their Rattle & Pedal podcast keeps each-other sharp. The show also acts as a content marketing vehicle to reach prospective clients, marketing leaders, and firm executives.
In this episode of "Podcasting in Professional Services," Jason and Jeff share the origins, evolution, and aspirations of Rattle & Pedal, giving us a glimpse into how their consulting backgrounds and podcasting journeys have intertwined.
The Convergence of Professional Experience and Curiosity
The seeds of "Rattle and Pedal" were sown at an association meeting where Jeff first encountered Jason's insightful questions to a panel of experts. This connection was the precursor to regular, thought-provoking conversations.
“It just became a popular refrain after we were having this conversation; ‘I wish we had recorded that,’” Jeff recalled, thinking back to a time before Rattle & Pedal. “So several years later, Jason called me and said, ‘Hey, let's just hit record on the conversations we were already having.’”
Rattle & Pedal lives up to its promise of delivering divergent—and sometimes opposing—viewpoints on the topics and themes discussed on the show. The differing world views of Jason and Jeff make for dynamic and thought-provoking discussions; a recipe for a unique and value-rich podcast.
“When we first started, our tagline still is ‘divergent thoughts on growing professional services,’ and our intro music has this kind of discordant sound to it,” Jeff explained. “Those were very purposeful because Jason and I had very different views on the world, and that's what made the conversations so much fun.”
Their chemistry wasn't just incidental. In fact, it was the backbone of a podcast that was as much an R&D lab as it was an up-and-coming pair of voices in professional services.
Expanding Beyond Their Own Thinking
Podcasts naturally evolve and grow over time. At some point, Jason and Jeff realized they needed to bring in outside voices to explore topics they weren’t well versed in. This created a dynamic mix of co-hosted commentary and guest interviews.
Their approach to content strategy shifted toward thinking about episodes in ‘themes’ where they would explore a topic in-depth and come to a natural conclusion. “I also like the themes to have openings and closings whenever possible,” said Jason. “We almost have a working hypothesis for the conversations we're going to have with the guests. And then do a recap at the end.”
Recently, the duo explored AI topics, inviting leading voices to broaden the discourse—a testament to their commitment to staying relevant. The show's thematic approach allows them to explore topics in depth over several episodes, always in pursuit of new insights.
Measuring Success: Scaling Beyond Speaking Engagements
A common goal among business podcasters is to use their platform as a way to save time and money flying around the country for speaking engagements.
“I wanted to get off the speaking circuit,” said Jason. “I had been traveling and speaking a lot, and I was really worn out. I wanted to be able to spend more time with my kids. I've saw [podcasting] as a way to do the speaking I had been doing, but do it from the comfort of my office.”
Initially, Jeff went into his podcasting journey with high expectations of immediate business impact. “My view of these metrics were so overstated and ambitious in terms of listeners and leads and revenue,” recalled Jeff, thinking back to how he initially measured success. “And when Jason saw those, he just laughed at me. And rightfully so. I was so ignorant of the hill you have to climb in doing a podcast.”
Today, Jeff holds a different view of how the podcast impacts his business. “My metrics are quantitative and probably more qualitative,” said Jeff, speaking to how his definition of success has changed over time. “I've gotten clients through this—all different kinds of clients. And they'll say, ‘Hey, I listened to your podcasts and they'll schedule a consultation or meeting.”
However, leads and revenue isn’t the only value that the podcast brings to Jeff. The podcast content is a way to have conversations at scale. “I share episodes regularly with clients or potential clients that are wrestling with a problem and say, ‘hey, we talked about this subject. Here's perspective from two people. You can hear from a CEO or managing partner on how they looked at it. And that's invaluable to me.”
The Future of Rattle & Pedal: What to Expect Moving Forward
What will the future bring to this pair of seasoned podcasters? In Jason’s mind, he sees a flexible future where he and Jeff can test and experiment with different aspects of the show. “I'd like to continue to do more of that, where we test new formats, test new approaches that take a different angle on what we're doing.” said Jason.
In fact, one of their experiments was to add more structure with episode formats and timing, but it felt too restrictive. “We tried [having more structure] for about three months and it felt really restrictive to us,” said Jason. “I don't think it was working because we just don't work that way. We're much more free-form thinkers.”
Acknowledging where the market is headed and the need to continuously improve, Jeff’s vision of the future includes more video content. “I think the market is evolving to the point—particularly with AI and its impact on search—having a presence on YouTube is going to be critical.”
As Jeff and Jason continue to experiment with their show’s format and explore meaningful topics, Rattle & Pedal stands as a testament to the power of curiosity, professional evolution, and collaborative effort.
